«Second Approach» Yuriy Yaremchuk, or what will comfort your heart? (excerpts from the interview for the magazine Jazz-Square)



Andrey Razin: The band we’re talking about has no wish whatsoever to make some kind of musical copies of something or someone. This could not be an artistic aim, since it’s simply boring.

Gennadiy Sakharov: As paradoxically as it may sound, the very absence of ready-made patterns is what puzzles the listener. They cannot find their usual reference-point. "You know, — one lady told me yesterday, — this Yaremchuk is not like anyone else. I listen to John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, I like this type of music, but he does not remind me of anyone else. I was completely disoriented and did not know how to perceive him, I felt myself very uncomfortable, then I forced myself to listen and realized – it’s great that it does not remind of anyone else, it’s terrific.” It sounds almost like an aphorism.

Razin: It is probably better when a musician can hear something about himself. Moreover, I perceive Yura with the same degree of enthusiasm as this lady.

Sakharov: Let’s continue our discussion about the „Second Approach.” We started talking about the absence of any traditional models of perception. People who asked me the question below talked about the abscence of traditional signs of jazz in your music. Naturally this may disorient a listener, who is not prepared for such music. In this case, they asked, what should be a perception model for your music? What would you suggest?

Razin: If somebody is interested in hearing something new, understand it, go deeper, he or she may arrive at something more complicated, perhaps unexpected, and won’t be stuck on something familiar forever.

Sakharov: You mean that experience of a listener is what matters here...

Razin: I think so. It’s similar to how the interest arises to new art, new literature, new cinema

Sakharov: But we have some sad examples of the absence of a reference point and inability to understand alien (speaking relatively) music: just take the reaction of such a master as Sergey Belichenko, for instance. As soon as the „Second Approach” was brough up, he said, yes, it is all very interesting, but I can’t listen to it, it’s not jazz. I told him: what’s the difference if it’s jazz or not? I listen to Brahms’s symphony and I understand it’s Brahm’s symphony, I listen to Goloshchekin and I understand what it is. What happens then in this case?

Razin: I think that today, on April 27, 2002 it is absurd to try and attach labels and tags, try to classify something contemporary happening on stage.

Yaremchuk: I don’t understand. Does he want to sweep aside almost all new-jazz people like Evan Parker, Ned Rothenberg, John Surman? There’re a lot of them. They also don’t play jazz then, do they?

Sakharov: This question should not be addressed to me.

Razin: For each and everyone of us jazz starts and ends at a definite point. For some jazz is only Louis Armstrong.

Sakharov: Maybe you could refuse from this sort of classification entirely. Relatively speaking, you’re playing jazz, but that’s a type of jazz which expanded its own limits. After all it is a jazz festival and people come to a jazz concert.

Razin: I agree, but on the other hand, it makes no difference to me if others call our music jazz or they don’t.

Sakharov: You’re not striving towards a certain definition?

Razin: No, I don’t care much for it.

Sakharov: Please, don’t forget fellows, I’m not asking my own questions but those asked by the public. You’re probably used to it already, you’re above it. But most probably there were times when you had to answer the most naive questions in order to be understood. There’s nothing to be done here. That’s why the question about the model of perception makes sense. I think you’ve partially answered it. I would just add that to listen to your music a person has to be prepared to perceive classical music. At least from the point of view of form. Many people said that it’s wonderful as a process, but we can’t grasp the development, how it all unvails and where the form lies.

Yaremchuk: I would like to dwell on this issue. Essentially this music is a signal for the brain of a listener in the hall. This signal is transmitted, it gets into one’s head and this person develops a concept of what he or she hears or sees. This in its turn will depend on their cultural, intellectual and aesthetic expectations. Secondly, as you rightly pointed out, this music borders on classical forms and naturally listeners should be better equipped than those who come to a jazz concert where there is a simple ABA-form: theme – improvisation – theme. In our case compositional development is more complex. The approach is also not exactly the same as in jazz, where everything happens more or less on the same timbre and dynamic level. In our case timbre as well as dynamic and form-building ranges are much wider.

Mitropolsky: Lately I’ve been expressing my opinion on this subject a lot. I think that those listeners used to so-called jazz music in the narrow sense of the word should better be not so well-prepared, even thought this contradicts what Yura has just said. What do I mean? A jazz lover knows in advance perfectly well the norms according to which this music should develop. This concerns not even music, but the whole performance on stage. A jazz connoisseur knows that the form should consist of a theme with variations and god forbid anything else. It should have either a square structure or harmonical improvisation with the elements of complete predictability, i.e. certain normativeness. This contradicts my own convictions about the nature of jazz as creative music by definition. These people turn jazz into dead music. It stops developing since it finds itself trapped in the cocoon of these norms. It seems to me that the music this band as well as many other musicians in the sphere of contemporary music create is jazz music, because it’s both creative and improvisational. Notice that despite a very important compositional element, this music is marked by the improvisational element much more than this usually happens with the mainstream. We can hear it in the recordings of the same piece at different concerts. In this way, this music remains jazz for me in the most profound original sense of the word. What could be done? The audience should simply refuse from these dogmata, be more open and that’s all.

Sakharov: It’s a good advice, but sometimes it’s too difficult to follow it. Once I described the improvisation in mainstream as “wacked-out.”

Yaremchuk: You could say so...

Sakharov: And I got my lot for it!

Razin: What can you do, sometimes you have to suffer for a precise description.

Sakharov: What else... There were a lot of folk elements in your program. The listeners would like to know if it’s a tribute to fashion, the alternative to an existing model of similar improvisation music or it’s a way out of the deadend, in which classical avant-garde and conservative jazz, contemporary and older mainstream found themselves.

Razin: I think that neither of those is correct. In yesterday’s program there was almost no one authentic quotation from the folk music.

Sakharov: Well, there were enough intonations. One can call it working with the material.

Razin: But this is not a direct quotation, it’s not a use of a theme in a new arrangement and treatment. This is how we hear, it’s our taste, our thoughts, our approach to making music.

Sakharov: You’re saying that you don’t force yourself or your musical concept. Then could you answer my own question. How do you imagine further development of the improvisation music? Is that a continuation of the synthesis of classical music or is it a search for something different? Maybe it is a return to something that already was? I don’t mean only your band. How do you see a modern panorama, what is happening if anything?

Razin: It is clear that something is happening. But it happens on those levels, where it’s hard to notice. It also depends on people who are involved in it.

Sakharov: What I mean is the following. Let’s assume Butman is playing American jazz. Goloshchekin is playing his own music and he will always play it. But there is a concept of creative music – what is happening in this sphere? Does this music strive for something?

Yaremchuk: I’ve been observing the expansion of aleatoric dimension in classical music. You could see it in Maurizio Kagel, Karlheinz Stockhausen and a lot of other musicians. The time has come to allow a performer more freedom, which is something the audience craves for as well. Dry classical music intended for elite consciousness,...

Sakharov: Excuse me for interrupting, but as Barban said, „it became too perfect.”

Yaremchuk: It became too perfect and now few people go to these concerts.

Sakharov: Peopled turned away from it.

Yaremchuk: The time has come when people realized something should be done. The performance has become current. They started using movement. The musicians walk, talk, cut and tear up something. In addition, they obviously play. Spontaneous pieces have appeared. Karlheinz Stockhausen has a number of recordings of spontaneous music. A musician is offered a certain stratum, indicated graphically or, in case of Kagel, by textual directions.

Sakharov: But this is a different model of improvisation from what I’ve been speaking about. I meant new improvisation music. Evan Parker is one thing, while Stockhausen is somewhat different.

Yaremchuk: If we’re talking about jazz improvisation, I’ll come back to a question about folk music sources. In fact Evan Parker has based his music on Irish folklore. You can clearly discern Irish folk dance tunes in his music. He’s changed a lot, there’re elements of minimalism and pointillistic devices. Parker has found new possibilities, brand new trend and developed his own aesthetics. Today many people use his achievements and technical devices – he plays double language, double or triple staccatto, uses minimalistic cyclic fragments. I can see some progress in improvisation music. Improvisation music sublimates both the achievements of jazz, classical music and folklore – these three cornerstones. European musicians embrace a wider range of phenomena than traditional negro basis. Those achievements we see represented by the music of Ned Rothenberg, Evan Parker and John Bucher, demonstrate that important changes have occured in comparison to, let’s say, the 50’s.

Sakharov: Can we then rephrase our honorable Aleksey Nikolaevich Batashev and say that music performed by the „Second Approach” figuratively speaking will take place of music written by Stockhausen?

Mitropolsky: I don’t think this will happen...

Sakharov: Because it’s more natural, more intriguing, more direct despite its certain ...speculativeness.

Mitropolsky: I believe these are different types of creativity. Again coming back to Aleksey Nikolaevich Batashev I recall that he would distinguish these types of creativity since they have essential differences. A musician, a performer, I’m emphasizing this word, improvises within the fragments given to him by a composer, who is a completely different person than a musician, who is in his/her turn an author of the music on stage. These are two different territories. That’s why the band will never take place of Stockhausen.

Sakharov: But I always saw something temporary here, that this study about different types of creativity bears a historical character. And what happens next is unknown. While Terry Riley, when I spoke to him at SKIF, put it even better. He said if I could at least presume what happens to music in two, three or five years, I would stop working. What turns me on is that I have no idea what will happen.

Mitropolsky: We should also keep in mind that the process is created by his hands and not ours. We are observers and we take different stands.

Sakharov: There was a question from the audience to Yura. In what way different technical devices – slap, different rustle and noises etc. that he extensively uses, influence the form of the piece and consequently its content, since form is always meaningful?

Yaremchuk: I use all technical devices in the sphere of the sound texture, be it noises, whispers, rustle, pointillistic slaps, antiphones, or anything this wind instrument (saxophone) can produce. Of course I don’t play in this way for the sake of playing; I put together a composition. There has been a lot of music of this sort written by classical composers. I borrow and learn a lot from them. Stockhausen, Ligeti, Edison, Denisov have such pieces. I’ve mastered all the classical avant-garde technique. But I use all this in jazz context or simply during the concert only when necessary, when I feel the need for these devices.

Sakharov: Just to clarify, one could say that a general concept and form are primary for you rather than a wish to demonstrate potentialities of your instrument?

Yaremchuk: Let me just give you an example. Do you remember when yesterday at the concert we performed a gypsy song? I played a clear melody using pure direct sound. Of course I use special devices within a context of the idea I want to present.

Sakharov: Thank you. One last thing. I will voice a wish of a bunch of listeners, who stayed till the end of your performance yesterday and really liked it. They suggested that you should be invited more often, and not for the festival, but with solo concerts. They said that Yaremchuk definitely adorns somewhat speculative music of the „Second Approach” with his spontaneity, inner passion, and this they especially emphasized since there was nothing external, but what stood out was precisely internal passion and dedication. You fit in brilliantly, although there might be a slight difference between you from the aesthetic point of view. They asked to pass on their gratitude and their wish that you play more with this band.



Prepared for publication by Mikhail Mitropolsky



Selected discography of the „Second Approach” and Yuriy Yaremchuk:

1.Andrei Razin & the Second Approach "Pierrot" Boheme Music 1999 CDBMR 904056

2.Andrei Razin — Igor Ivanushkin "Something From the Past:" Landy Star — Jazzland 2000 LS-002-2000 J01

3.Second Approach feat. Mike Ellis "Ex Tempore" NRW Jazz NRW 90062001

Landy Star Jazz 2001 LS-028-2001J18

4.Second Approach & Yuri Yaremchuk "Yurassic period" DIALOG MUSIC DM-80016 J24

5. Second Approach "Jazz, Please!" (Äæàç äàâàé!) DIALOG MUSIC DM-80092J28

6.Þðèé ßðåì÷óê — Christophe Rocher "Closed Mountains" Landy Star — Jazzland 2000 LS-012-2000 J07

7.Þðèé ßðåì÷óê "Äóýòû" Landy StarJazz 2001 LS-021-01J12

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Yuriy Yaremchuk: New Music From the Old Carpathians (The interview for the magazine Jazz-Square)



It happened that after the collapse of the Soviet Union the myth about Soviet “new music” has come to naught and this occurred not only due to political events, but also as the result of many musicians giving up free improvisation. Make your own conclusions: A.Vapirov, M.Alperin, V.Ganelin, A.Kirichenko left, S.Kurekhin passed away, V.Chekasin’s performances bear more of a theatrical character, where music plays ever smaller role.

That is why it is especially delightful, when a musician appears in Moscow with his accomplished individual musical thinking, who is not like anyone else and does not try to imitate anyone, unlike the majority of Moscow saxophone players striving to play not their own music, but something in the American style. The musician I’m speaking about is Lviv saxophonist Yuriy Yaremchuk. Together with the guitarist Alexander Nesterov they are trail-blazers for the new music in Ukraine, although recently he’s been working more with the actress and singer Natalka Polovynka and his two daughters, students at the conservatoire Nastia and Yulia. For this visit at the festival Deep Voice or Dangerous Vocal Cords that took place in November in Moscow cultural center DOM Yuriy Yaremchuk brought the quartet with N.Polovynka and his daughters.

On the eve of the festival a new sub-label of the Moscow company "Landy Star" —Jazzland — Russian version", run by a famous jazz public figure Mikhail Mitropolsky, produced a CD the „Closed Mountains” featuring Yaremchuk. I decided to speak to Yura about this new album and the new projects, which he presented in Moscow.

Valeriy Silayev: Yura, congratulations on your first album and since for some reason the disk is missing information about the project „Closed Mountains” I would like to learn more about its history and the meaning of its name.

Yuriy Yaremchuk: The name of the project the "Closed Mountains" is easy to explain. For the French musicians, who participated in the recording of this album, the Carpathians and Ukraine remained a restricted territory for a long time. Moreover, not only have they never been to Ukraine, they even did not suspect about its existence! Finally they had a chance to come to Lviv and then a Ukrainian participant of the project, a violinist and a vagrant Roman Ros, suggested to them Ukrainian folk music as one of the musical components. Since you can hear authentic Ukrainian music only in the Carpathians the French went to the mountains and discovered a whole new world!

Silayev: Yura, was Roman Ros earlier acquainted with these musicians? How did your acquaintance come about?

Yaremchuk: In the old times there was this legendary Ukrainian boat Chaika (Seagull) which was used by the Ukrainian cossacs to go to different countries, to sell and buy things. In the modern times a bunch of Ukrainian enthusiasts built a similar Chaika and gathered on board Ukrainian writers, philosophers, musicians, artists. Following the example of the historical cossacks , they started sailing from country to country, although they did not engage in trade, but brought with them Ukrainian culture, access to which was earlier closed. I don’t know an exact itinerary of this boat, but I know they reached Brest, where they disembarked and it was in Brest that Roman Ros won everyone’s heart with his violin play.

Silayev: Could you tell me, if Ros is exclusively an ethnic musician?

Yaremchuk: No, he is so mixed up. He is a Western Ukrainian ethnically and that’s why he is very good at the Carpathian folklore. Anyway, at the time they had maritime festival in Brest with actors, poets and musicians participating in it. One of the French participants was an outstanding bass-clarinet player Christophe Rocher and Roman Ros played with him at this festival, which eventually led to our joint project.

Christophe has a friend, a saxophonist Jean Quillivic, who plays every instrument in the reed family. Roman Ros invited these two musicians to Lviv, where they performed in the art gallery Dzyga. At first Rocher and Quillivic performed as a duet, and then Lviv musicians joined in. Roman Ros bumbed into me at the time and invited to play together with the French in order to maintain reputation of Lviv. So I went there and played at jam session and then played a full-length concert of spontaneous music with the French!

After the concert we came over to my place, drank some wine and Christophe Rocher asked me several times if I would participate in a joint project. I answered several times: "Yes! Yes! Yes!" It was in 1998. About half a year later, the French sent us an invitation and we went to Brest, where we started rehearsing and then recorded this album! It was an extremely interesting work. We had to leave right after we’d recorded the album and did not even have a chance to listen to a final polished version, since our visas expired. But in the year 2000 we came to Brest once again to present a concert version of the material we’d recorded.

Silayev: Was this a kind of promotion of the album that had not come out yet?

Yaremchuk: Yes, you could say so. We performed in one of the most prestigious halls in Brest – Quartz. Another wonderful band performed at this concert – the New Quintet that featured guitarists Christian Escoude and Django Reinhardt’s son – Babik Reinhardt.

Silayev: I did not realize that Django’s son is a jazzman! How does he cope with keeping his Dad’s rep?

Yaremchuk: He’s doing just fine! Their performance was awesome: they played this modern variant of the band Hot Club de France! Hot, string, swing music!

While we played the program which we’d recorded. The audience received us really well. Later we performed at the festival of the contemporary music. The director of this festival is my partner in the Closed Mountains Christophe Rocher, who is fully dedicated to the new music. Many important musicians such as the professor of Paris conservatoire percussion player Ramon Lopez, saxophonists Michael Danida, Daunik Lazro, English double bass player Paul Rodgers attended this festival! Paul Rodgers was one of the brightest musicians at this festival. There were other musicians there, who are less known here but interesting all the same: a singer Pascal Labbe, electroacoustic player from Nante Christophe Atavi, electroacoustic player from Brest Djarma. I was delighted.

Besides we performed at a cinematheque, where we accompanied the screening of the documentary about life in the province of Bretagne. We played spontaneously! In general Bretagne has the ultimate cultural life!

Silayev: Is your project going to have any continuation?

Yaremchuk: I tried to arrange a performance for the project in Ukraine, applied to the Kyiv office of the Renaissance foundation, but they refused to give any money explaining that the project’s ratings are not high enough. While I dreamt to record a second album of this project and include ethnic Ukrainian music in it with the recording of the real Hutsul people and video recordings of the Carpathian landscapes... I still hope for the continuation and keep in touch with the French, while Lviv Union of the composers has promised to sponsor their visit to Ukraine.

Silayev: Yura, could you tell now about this new project you brought to Moscow!

Yaremchuk: I had “love at first sight” with N.Polovynka, I mean musical love. We attended the Days of Ukrainian culture in Krakow, where I performed with my trio a jazz program. Lviv actors were curious to find out what kind of musicians from Lviv can perform side by side with them. After our performance Natalka Polovynka came up to me; she was dumbstruck because the music we performed seems so close to her. Later, already in Lviv that was exactly what she told me: “This is mine!”

Gradually we started working together. As the result the whole performance was born. In "Íomo Ludens" Natalka performs a dramatic role, living a life of a woman in all its aspects: love, grief, joy... I created a peculiar sound background on my instruments, being in this way also involved in this dramaturgy. Working on this project I found the way to bring in my children. I have two daughters: Anastasia plays the flute and Yulia plays the piano; they are both students at Lviv conservatoire! I gave them a lot in term of contemporary musical thinking, they learned to improvise, treat sound gaps with care, as they play an enormous role in contemporary music. Both girls come from good classical school, that’s why bringing them into our duet I knew they would not disrupt already evolved structure, but only adorn and enrich it with new sound images.

We performed with this quartet for the first time earlier this year at the festival Golden Lion, creating a peculiar concert-performance. The responses were really good, after the concert various people approached us and thanked us. Then we received an invitation to the voice festival from Nikolai Dmitriev, and we prepared a new program for it, meant specifically for Natalka Polovynka’s voice and based on Ukrainian folklore. This program differs from what we’d shown at Golden Lion. We’ve gathered folklore material and added strikingly contemporary instrumental background, which is more characterisitc of today’s classical music rather than jazz. Judging by the response of the Moscow viewers they liked our program. That’s practically all.

Silayev: Yura, thank you for the conversation. Once again my congratulations on your album and let it be just the beginning, moreover Landy Star company already has one of your interesting recordings in its portfolio, which includes your duets with different musicians. I also wish you new interesting concerts not only in Moscow but in other cities of the former Soviet Union! Good luck!

Valeriy SILAYEV



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